Adam Ruder from NYSERDA Electric Buses

Wayne interviews Adam Rudder the NYSERDA Director of Clean Transportation. They discuss the role of NYSERDA as well as the promise and challenges to electrifying a school bus fleet. 

Transcript

Unknown: 0:22

Wayne Ackles, welcome back to education matters. I'm your host, Wayne Ackles, and I'm very excited to have as our guest today Mr. Adam ruder, who is affiliated with the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority, and his role in that is the director of clean transportation, and Adam has agreed to be here today. He's got some news that he wants to share, and also he's going to tell us a little bit more about the role of NYSERDA and the role of electric busses in the future for New York State. So Adam, welcome to education matters New York, glad you could be here today. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Adam. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up doing the work that you do. Sure. So I have been with NYSERDA for 16 years now, and this is actually my first job after grad school, and have stuck it out this, this whole time I've been up in Albany for that period, and I have been working on the clean transportation team that whole time. Worked up from an Assistant Project Manager. Now I'm now director, but at NYSERDA, the clean transportation team does a little bit of everything we do work on funding R D for new products and and new innovations in the in the sector, up through demonstrations of the of technologies for more mature technologies, we help with rebates and and try to remove other market barriers to adoption. And then we do a little bit with the with policy work as well, and not just related to school busses, but cars, trucks, transit, biking, walking, really, across the board, interesting. So tell us about the role of this across the state, in terms of maybe where someone may have maybe not even realize that NYSERDA played a role within their local school district and helping, you know, achieve something, maybe more energy efficiency, or, you know, something, again, that sometimes some of this work goes on beyond behind the scenes, and people don't realize what's happening. Yeah, and I sort of has a long history of working with schools to help them save money and and improve the air quality environment for students, both in the buildings and and in the transportation system we have worked NYSERDA really is, I would say, best known for our work on energy efficiency and renewable energy. We've worked with schools across the state to improve the efficiency of their heating, their lighting. You know, the the entire entire building system for for hundreds of schools across the state. We've also helped schools install solar panels and or by renewable energy through other means. And so we've had those programs ongoing for a long time. We've actually been working with school busses for a number of years. What's one of the first things I started working on when I when I got to NYSERDA, helping schools reduce their the idling of busses and and improve their performance in cold weather and and try out first hybrid busses, then plug in hybrid busses, and now all electric busses, so they sort of has a long history of working with schools, through the Clean Green Schools program, and and and other programs, and we have a long history of working in electrification. New York state is investing nearly $3 billion in transportation electrification through across the sector, so with cars, trucks, busses, and you know this is, this is part of Governor Hochul bigger initiatives to reduce the carbon emissions and pollution from from the economy across New York to really improve New Yorkers health and and fight this climate challenge. Interesting. And as I was doing the research and looking into nyserdas past, I was also thinking I I applied for a job at one point at local school district, Avon Central School. And one of the things that is very apparent when you roll up on their campus is that they have a large solar array, and they have had that for some time now. And I remember the superintendent at the time we talked a little bit after the interview, and he we got talking about that and how that that investment that they had made, was very close. Close to paying for itself, and then was going to be turning around and to a degree, making, you know, air quotes, making the the district money, in the sense that they were going to be able to sell some of the electricity they were generating back to the grid. Yeah, we have a we've, we've worked with schools in a lot of different capacities over the years, and and other fleets as well. One of the things that we're really happy about is that that voters have approved $4.2 billion environmental bond act in 2022 and a portion of that goes to improving and and retrofitting and making a building, improvements to an energy efficiency, improvements to school buildings, and portion of it goes toward zero mission, school busses as well. Excellent, excellent. Now, I understand there was some news that broke last week and that that would this would be a good time to share that in terms of some of the work that NYSERDA is doing in terms of funding, yes, so, as I mentioned, the environmental bond act of 2022, was approved by voters, and as part of this program, $500 million was made. Was dedicated to zero emission school busses. We made the first 100 million dollars available in November 2023 and we have seen a really strong response to that funding since it was released. We've seen more than 75 schools requesting funding for more than 350 busses in, you know, just the last nine months, and to that, to that extent, we have released another $200 million that's now available for for zero emission school busses and charging, as well as planning for planning projects for schools as well. So between all of these programs, we see this as a great opportunity for schools to take the first step in understanding how they can how they can work electric school busses into their fleets, and take those first steps in purchasing busses, purchasing charging and installing it on their campuses to to really get started with this electric school bus transition. Importantly, you know, the this funding covers a significant portion of the cost of electric busses charging and the planning process for the plans, the NYSERDA funding can cover up to 100% of the cost of developing a fleet electrification plan, which really involves developing a customized a customized plan for your school district that looks at your School Bus routes, looks at your geography, looks at the bus depot, looks at the existing bus fleet and the turnover rate, and comes up with a plan for how you can phase in electric busses over time, what types of busses, what types of charging you might need, and and How it's how it will affect the existing operations so that you can start making plans and working with your utility company to make sure that that they're ready for you to electrify and and really help inform the leadership of the school district and voters in the School District what to expect going forward and then for the busses and charging, our program can help to cover up to 100% of the difference in cost between a an electric school bus and a diesel bus. Electric school busses are more expensive right now up front, we do expect schools to realize savings from operating and maintaining them compared to a diesel bus, but right now, we can cover up to 100% of the difference in cost and up to 100% of the cost of the Chargers as well. So we look forward to seeing even more schools participate in our program now that there's another$200 million available. It was interesting when you were talking about geography when I was preparing for our conversation, one of the thoughts that came to mind is, in my early days, I did a lot of coaching, and there were some long, snowy bus rides home. And one of the things I got wondering is, you know, how do these busses compare to their counterparts and their performance in the snow? It sounds like kind of a random question, but I have to say that was one of the first places my brain went to was it's January and it's basketball season, and we're coming back from pick pick the district in the middle of a driving snowstorm. How's this electric bus going to do? Yeah, it's a great question, and something that we get asked a lot. So for a. First off school bus. Electric school busses are being used in snowy conditions in cold, cold parts of the state right now. Last winter, the folks up in Alexandria Bay, up in the 1000 Islands and in Malone right up by the Canadian border, each took delivery of electric busses and reported goods good success with them. Electric school busses, you know, they are going to perform pretty well in snowy conditions. They have good traction, good torque and and generally handle themselves pretty well in the snow, in cold temperatures, you know, electric cars in general, and electric school busses tend to not be able to, you know, go to their full rated capacity of range. They have a shorter range. But what we see is that most school busses these days have a range of between 102 100 miles on a charge, and depending on the model and how big the battery is, most school bus routes are not nearly that long. A typical school bus, even in rural areas, tends to go 80 to 100 miles in a day. So even in even in the winter with reduced ranges, if your bus typically gets 150 to 200 miles, then you should easily be able to make that, you know, 80, that 80 mile trip, even in the winter, there are going to be some school bus runs that are longer than that and or, you know, going to the sporting events or field trips. But we don't suggest that that those are the first busses, bus routes that you use, the electric busses on. As you as you get some electric busses, you try them on the easy to electrify routes, first get a sense of how they perform, what they do well, what they don't do as well. And as we go forward, if you look at electric cars five years ago, 10 years ago, they had, you know, maybe a third of the electric range in some instances that they have today, I had a electric car that I bought in 2015 that on a good day, got about 85 miles of range. Today, you can buy that same car with three times, easily, three times as much range for essentially the same price as you, if not less than I bought that for in 2015 So the technology is improving a lot. And if you start off by electrifying the easy to easy to do routes, by the time you get to say, half of your school bus fleet being electric, the technology will have improved quite significantly, and you'll be able to put those busses that you're that you're buying, then on some of these tougher to electrify routes well. And it's and it's funny, you mentioned the the range, because that was one of the things that I started to look up right away, and as I was doing the research in that 80 mile range and and try, as I might, I tried to find both field trips that I remember from past experiences. And as you said, a lot of that range is going to cover what a lot of those trips that I came up with. And some of those were field trips. Some those were special events, say to Darien Lake, which is a local spot where end of the year field trips end up, and some of the museums and different things like that. So I can definitely see where, you know that range is going to be covered largely with the ability that the the busses currently have. Yeah, and you know, you see this a lot with, with people with electric cars as well. You know, personal cars that you're concerned about. You know whether you can do the long road trip. But in actuality, 98% of the time you're you tend to drive, you know, less than, say, 30 miles a day, 3040, miles a day. And the typical, you know, typical driver for a personal car drives about 40 miles, 30 to 40 miles a day. And so when you've got a car with 200 plus miles of range, those daily trips, you don't even have to think twice about, yes, there are some longer trips that you may not be ready to do in these electric cars or electric busses yet, but over time, the charging infrastructure is going to get better that, you know, charging stations are going to be much more available in public and or, you know, at a school location that where you're going to go play basketball against another school, maybe you can charge there. But also the technology and the battery range in general is going to get better. So over time, more and more of those trips are going to be able to be covered. So beyond the obvious advantages of cost on saving for fuel. Yeah. Adam, in your mind, what are some of the other advantages that electric busses either bring to the table that people might not think of, other than the obvious cost savings on fuel? Yeah. So there are a lot of really great benefits of electric busses. People don't really think about it, but when you've got 60 kids sitting on a diesel bus, a lot of the fumes from that bus actually drift back into the cabin of the bus, exposing our kids to harmful diesel emissions. This is true even in rural areas with generally good air quality. When you're sitting on that bus and it stopped at a stop sign or a traffic light or or idling outside the school, you know, waiting to pick up kids or drop off kids, a lot of that diesel emission actually drifts back into the bus. And so there's a lot of research that shows that electric busses that have no tailpipe emissions, they don't have a tailpipe in general at all. Actually can improve the health of our students and get them to school ready to learn in, you know, in better health without, you know, reduce asthma, reduce other respiratory illnesses in a way that really shows benefits, not just, not just, you know, in health, but in learning outcomes, in lifelong outcomes, and that's, you know, that can't be under underestimated. There's also a lot of great benefits that people that you know, people don't even think about, like the fact that electric busses are actually a lot quieter. We've all sat on a school bus, and you have to yell to talk to your the kids sitting next to you, because the sound of that diesel engine is actually quite loud. It's helpful just noise. Noise pollution is a real thing, and it has an effect on people. It helps the bus drivers a lot, because you think about it, a bus driver can't really hear what's going on behind them all that well, in a lot of instances, and having a quiet bus, and this is something we've heard from actual bus drivers who are driving these busses, it helps them hear what's going on behind them, so that they can start To, you know, pay more attention to keeping kids safe. Diffusing, you know, fights before they start diffusing arguments. It actually has a big safety impact on making it easier for the driver to control what's going on on the bus. And drivers really like that. Every driver that we've heard from that's driving these busses enjoys not just the driving experience, because they're they're modern busses and drive really well, but they enjoy being able to actually do their job better and also not smell like diesel fumes when they get home at the end of the day. So you know, there's a lot of different benefits, and we're seeing the folks who interact with the busses most the students, the drivers and the mechanics. We've heard rave reviews from from all three groups in virtually every conversation that we have with the folks who really are interacting with the busses. You know, it's great to hear, especially that input from the bus drivers. I think sometimes as a group, we don't always remember just how important their role is on a day to day basis in terms of the safety of our kids. Now, you mentioned the mechanics, and that kind of brings me to my next question. There are those out there that say, even with the help from NYSERDA that and you talked earlier about creating these plans and and I'm sure there are folks out there that say, even with all of that upfront money, that the cost for all of these changes to go from the diesel busses to the electric busses, you know, is still awfully high and is not a wise spent money, money well spent in their minds. What? How? What would you say to those folks? Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a real concern, because this isn't easy. We haven't talked to a single district, and we won't talk to a single district that says, Yeah, you know what we're doing this tomorrow, it's all going to be easy. There's a lot that has to happen to make this work right. And we're working on not just getting the money in place for the busses, but we know that there are a lot of other challenges. It's workforce training, as you said, it's making sure that the utilities are the electric utilities are set up to bring power to the right place in time and making sure that the you know, municipalities that have to issue building permits to put in charging stations or know what they're doing there. So we're working across a number of different fronts to try to a. Address some of the concerns. And we've been around the state, talking to schools, talking to the facilities managers, the bus you know, the transportation managers, the business managers, the superintendents, the school boards, all of these folks to understand what they're seeing out there and try and so that we can try to address some of those challenges. We're not going to be able to address all of them, but we think that because of all the benefits that we just talked about, it's not just, you know, this isn't just about saving money, it's not just a or or reducing pollution, it's about all of these things that we think are brought to the table with these busses. And we see a lot of opportunity, a lot of opportunity to train students on, you know, the work to be the workforce of the future with with these busses, and give them exposure to new careers and new job opportunities that might be available going forward. So we see this as a really a diverse opportunity that brings a lot of benefits, not just it's not just about the upfront costs or the the total cost of ownership, which we see as as being pretty competitive with with diesel, but it's really about the whole package, yeah, and in regards to that whole package, and this is the last question that I have is, and you've sort of touched on this in your last answer, but I think, and in some ways, it's not a fair question to ask, because your role is not into some of these other policy areas, but some folks are going to say, hey, there's a lot of other more pressing issues going on in schools, like not right now, like mental health, trauma, informed instruction, that kind of thing. And why is this money, the money that should be spent on schools right now? And why isn't, you know? And obviously this is money that's been earmarked for that. So I've you know, we can't move this to a different to a different issue. But how would you answer those folks to say, hey, you know, this is money, even though it's not addressing these issues, it's still money that's well spent. Schools have to deal with any number of challenges every day, more than, more than I can count, and you need to do so many different things. Well, to be a school administrator, it's not just getting the classroom stuff right. It's not just, you know, making sure you've got it. You have to make sure you have safe buildings and clean buildings. You have to make sure you've got safe transportation, and, you know, all of these other things that that you mentioned as well, but you need to get it all right to make sure that kids have a good learning environment. And we think that this is a big piece of that, you know, for every for all the reasons I've mentioned, we see this as a great way to make sure that kids are getting to school in a, you know, in a good state to learn. They haven't been sitting in a noisy environment with with, you know, with dirty air for the last 45 minutes while they're running to school. It puts them in a good position to learn. It does the right thing for our our kids future, our plans future and and we think that that there are also a lot of cost saving opportunities associated with electric busses as well. So we are, our feeling is that as over time as schools get to understand how this can reduce their maintenance costs, how it can reduce their operating costs. And you know, we do expect to see the school bus prices come down over time. You know, battery prices have been dropping dramatically, and that's the biggest part of the cost of these electric busses. So we do expect that to continue to fall, and and these prices to be more competitive, we actually see that this could potentially even be a cost savings for schools over time that could then help them invest that money, those cost savings, into other parts of their their mission. So, you know, we see this as not a distraction from other things, but as really part of helping schools complete their missions and and do what they need to do to educate students in the best possible way. All right. Adam, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to have this conversation and share your insights on your role at NYSERDA, and I hope we can have you back again, or someone else from NYSERDA to talk about how things are going, both with electric busses and in just general, some of those energy efficiency projects that you mentioned earlier. Absolutely, it's been a pleasure, and thank you for having. Me take care and we will hopefully talk again soon. This has been education matters New York. I'm your host. Wayne Ackles, and this is a fat Wolverine productions, take care and have a great rest of the week.